Late Surrender

OK, I%26#39;m looking for some opinions and discussion from the blackjack players out there on Late Surrender.

We know Late Surrender is a rule which helps the players odds. We know that the Basic Strategy tells us on what hands to surrender.

Do you consistantly surrender in those conditions? I know I don%26#39;t, and from my experience it seems like very few people do. I tend to take advatage of Surrender when the cards seem to have turned against me and I%26#39;m trying to stop the bleeding, other than that, I%26#39;ll hit. I%26#39;m not sure I%26#39;ve ever sat at a table with someone who consistantly surrendered as often as the BS says they should.

It%26#39;s the only part of the Basic strategy that I%26#39;m inconsistant on. On everything else I know the odds tell me to just do what it says and I do it, but not surrender.

Why are blackjack players as a whole reluctant to take advantage of the benefit of Late surrender? I%26#39;d be interested to hear all your opinions.

Late Surrender

Many gamblers are by nature aggressive, and optomistic (why else play when you know ahead of time that the odds are against you in the long haul?) so the concept of ';surrendering'; seems wimpy?

Just a guess.

Late Surrender

I do use ls. I agree totally with Dave%26#39;s take too. Surrender rules vary for 2 and 6 deck and s17 and h17, so it%26#39;s important to know them if one is going to ';wimp out.'; :-)

I never surrender.

Why would I play BJ if I thought I was goping to lose?

If I have a 16 against a 10 showing, of course i%26#39;m going to hit. That basic strategy.

Personally, i think it only benefits card counters.

Uh, H8TOB, basic strategy also says to surrender certain hands. And if you think you%26#39;re going to win long term with 16 vs. dealer 10 up, you%26#39;re not. The point of basic strategy is to conserve your losses with loser hands and get maximum money up with positive expectation hands. I do appreciate your hitting the 16 though.

99.99% are also ploppies. if you don%26#39;t know what a ploppy is, then you are one.

This is why so few are disciplined enough to adhere to the rules... they%26#39;re playing to have a good time, get ';free'; drinks, try their ';luck';, etc

ploppies:

renzey.casinocitytimes.com/articles/9418.html

HTR

completely agree with underpar.

Surrendering certain hands IS basic strategy. Choosing to do so only when the %26#39;cards have turned%26#39; or because you must have a winning attitude is like staying on a 12 against a 2 because hitting %26#39;never works for me.%26#39;

That being said, I admit that I don%26#39;t always utilize surrender. I think it is because I often play at a five dollar table and I%26#39;m just tired of ploppies and dealers making snide comments about me trying to save 2.50. I do definitely utilize surrender when I%26#39;m betting green chips or above.

And, yes, I do realize that is a silly reason not to adhere to basic strategy.

I also count cards. Not because I think it is really going to make me money -- I realize that you have to basically make it a full time job in order to eek out the tiny advantage it gives a player -- but rather just to make it more interesting once I got to where I didn%26#39;t have to think about whether to hit or stand.

And I think using surrender has gotten me kicked off of a couple of tables and identified me as a counter. Not because surrender really raises any eyebrows. Rather it identifies you as someone who is aware of basic strategy and who knows what the correct plays are. Then, when the count is very favorable, to the point where you are supposed to take insurance, or stay on a 12 against a 2, they notice that the player who is smart enough to surrender is now taking the insurance sucker bet, and they start to notice how you vary your bet. Maybe I%26#39;m just imagining that, but I think that is how I got singled out. I guess I%26#39;m not the greatest at hiding the fact that I%26#39;m counting. :)

I am more likely to surrender if I%26#39;ve made a larger bet. If I%26#39;ve only got 1 unit on the table I will probably just hit it. Surrendering may be the correct play, but hitting is more fun, and ultimately, you are there to have fun.

It%26#39;s the same reason why I don%26#39;t play baccarat. The correct play is to always bet the same way every single time, and that would just bore me.

I guess it%26#39;s not just me.

I intellectually know that I should surrender on 16 against 9,10,A and 15 against 10 every single time, no different than knowing I should stand with 15 against a dealer 6 every single time. But something stops me some of the time. It%26#39;s illogical I know.

Two weeks from today I%26#39;ll be there. I%26#39;m telling myself ';This time I%26#39;m really going to play surrender the way it should be played';, but I%26#39;ve told myself that before. We%26#39;ll see how it goes.

wahoo1999: Outstanding post. You have to be aware of everything including your table image.

I learned a valuable lesson some years ago. I was playing downtown for small stakes. The table had a new dealer who was very slow and dealt too far into the deck. I was having a conversation and not paying close enough attention (just an excuse) and I hit an 18. The fact that it was the right thing to do doesn%26#39;t matter---I forgot the affect it would have on those watching. I should have just stayed with the hand, even if it lost. Of course I had to leave.

As you said, you always have to be aware of your actions and what message they send.

Of course surrender is under-utilized. And I agree that the main reason is that we all think the object is to win, not to limit our losses.